Help copy lyrics

• Sep 28, 2015 - 20:33

Ok, I'm sure it's there somewhere, but...

trying to do a 3 part arrangement of "Huron Carol". I have a 4 part that I'm trying to put into MuseScore that I will then modify. I understand that that's probably not the fastest way, but I'm learning a lot simply entering the existing arrangement.

For example, I put in all the notes. I put in all the lyrics for the Sop. The Second verse is a canon - Tenor following Sop.

I just want to copy the lyrics from S and paste into T 2 beats later. It's a canon - rhythm is identical.

somewhere I saw a reference to a "Select - Lyrics" command (or thought I did) but now I can't find it.

Any help would be appreciated - We live in Huronia (hence the interest in Huron Carol) and my wife is in a 12 voice women's ensemble (hence the interest in the SSA or SSAA version.)

Think about the "bonus points" I might get if I get this to work and sound good!

Many thanks.
(I've attached my start to the score in case it would make more sense... The relevant point is the p/u to m.10 in S.)

Attachment Size
Huron Carol - study.mscz 14.6 KB


There are lots of ways of selecting things in MuseScore. For example, as with most programs, ctrl+click things one by one selects them. Or, right click something, then see the "Select" menu that popos up for many more options. Also see View / Selection Filter, which allows you to select a region but then specify which specific element types within that region are actually selected.

Without knowing *exactly* what you are trying to do, it's hard to be more specific about what you might want, but once you manage to select the lyrics you want, you can press Ctrl+C to copy, click any other note, and hit Ctrl+V to paste those lyrics starting at that note.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

ok - there are a couple of things.

I'm using 2.0.2 for Windows which appears to be current. Is it possible that some of the solution presented is for Mac, and not yet in the PC version? Given that the shortcuts shown apply in PC, I'm confused.

Under the menu, I get or I don't get any of the cascade etc.

Ok, the "MuseScore: Select" window isn't there either - or else I'm blind!

Still working, still grateful for the help.


In reply to by Roger Priddle

Mac and PC versions are identical. If you right click a lyric, you should see a menu with Cut, Copy, Paste, Select, Edit Element, Text Style, Text Properties, and Help. "Select" opens a submenu with a number of relevant options.

The "Selection Filter" appears in the "View" menu on the main menu bar.

In reply to by Roger Priddle

It's funny how our assumptions can bite us. I'm working on a canonical section. I put in the notes and lyrics for the first voice, then the notes for the second voice. As a test, i wanted to copy just the lyrics from V1 to V2 for just 4 measures.

So, click on a lyric, RtClick - Select > All Similar Elements in Same Staff, and I got all the lyrics on the top line through the whole piece. I would have expected that in a "piano-roll" view, but in Page view, I assumed that having selected a lyric, trying to select a range would have de-selected the lyric, and vice-versa.

But it didn't. The software (I guess) recognized the difference in the two selection modes and allowed me to make the sequential selections without disrupting the previous.

Maybe this happens in all sorts of other software and, somehow, I never noticed. Regardless, having figured it out in MuseScore, I think you guys should be more than a little proud!

I'm still really slow - it may be due to the complexity of the software (in that it will allow me to do so much stuff once I figure out how...) or it may be due to age and general decrepitude (plus I have a cold and, being a guy, I always whine a lot about that!) but I've now moved firmly into the camp that says, "If I can't make it do what I want, it's MY fault, not the software's."

thanks again.

In reply to by Roger Priddle

Excellent! For the record, "staff" in MuseScore (and most other programs) does indeed refer to that staff throughout the entire score, regardless of where it might happen to break on the page. A single physical line of music across the page - including all staves - is called a "system". The "Select / More..." dialog is what allows you to fine tune your selection by system, by voice, etc.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Ok I'm being lazy - I should check this out myself but I"m feeling sick and stupid . The use of "staff" and "system" is familiar to me. However, in this specific setting, since it is possible to select (say) just the Tenor line (in an SATB setting, and to just want to work with the amount Tenor music in 1 system (i.e. mm 17 to 21).

Is my copy too old? Under "Edit", I have ... Ooops - I've run into the situation where the menu from the menu bar, and the RT Click context menu are very different again. The "Select/More..." menu is what your comments are referring to - that's great, but not my default when following instructions.

So two questions - 1) is there a plan to have the two menu sets merge, so that all menu items are available either through the bar or through a RtClick? and 2) If they are to remain separate, Is there a plan to visually tag instructions so I know which menu set is being called for?

Does Mac use RtClick more than PC? Certainly, I don't find the use of RtClick to bring up menus to be at all inuitive - not your "fault" but feels like built-in assumption depending on the O/S.

I'm sending you all this in case most of the development is done by Mac users. There may be some frustration from PC users therefore. I'd like to identify this sort of thing - not that I can fix it, but I want MuseScore to make you guys famous! And the more people who can easily use it, the better.


P.s. - If I'm being a pain, tell me and I'll stop.

In reply to by Roger Priddle

The norm on both Windows and Mac (Linux too) is for the main menu to contain mostly "global" commands - ones that work on an entire document or on selections. The right click menu (often Ctrl+click on Mac) is for commands that are specific to a particular type of element - in fact, the normal name for this (again, on all operating systems) is "context menu", because its content depends on the context (i.e., where you right click). It's actually an extremely commonly used concept; I really can't think of many programs at all that don't do something like this.

Not sure what you mean by "visually tag instructions". I and most other people who help on the forums are almost always explicity about telling people they need to right click. I guess sometimes someone might occassionally forget, but nistakes are unavoidable. Once you realize that roght clicking *is* an important and useful operation in many programs, including MuseScore, you'll probably develop a better sense of when it will is called for even if someone happens to forget to mention it.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Thanks for your patience, Marc. I was thinking about this, wondering why my automatic reactions are different to most other people, and have come to wonder if it's a function of my having spent my early years in a pre-GUI environment (Fortran IV and punch cards). (My first computer pre-dated DOS... and my first programming courses pre-dated the PC (and the 8088 chip) by a decade.)

I had close to 20 years of "computing" prior to first seeing a mouse. And for many of the years since, the right button did almost nothing. I'm just not used to it having a "real" function, and old habits die hard.

So I really do appreciate your staying with my on things like this - sometimes my problem is knowing what question to ask.


In reply to by Roger Priddle

Ok, so I'm getting better with Rt.Click - and it's very useful. I like it!

So, then I screwed up the text underlay in the soprano voice. The problem is that the height from the notes is way off for about 4 measures. They're all different (ok, I was trying to fix it by sight...)

In one of the early versions of Finale, if I remember correctly, there was a way to show the "base line" so you could see how much above or below the element was. (It was a long time ago - I'm not explaining it well.)

So I'm looking for a way to re-align the text. Ideally, I'd be able to show some line which I could drag up or down if I need something different than the default. This would be the base of the text. Then (if I got everything I wanted!) there would be a command to align the actual text with this line. (IOW, drag the line to set the clearance from the notes, then snap the text to the line.)

OK, what i want is what I need to fix what I've screwed up! And I'm asking you because I bet MuseScore already does it.

In reply to by Roger Priddle

AND...! Just found something else.

Somehow, I've changed the spacing between S and A for mm 25-28, being the top system on Page 5. I have no idea how I did it, nor any idea how to fix it. Presumably, eventually, it will be possible to drag a system (to allow for multiple ledger lines, etc.?) so as to adjust by sight.

If MuseScore already does it, I can't find it. I tried "breaks and spacers", and those can add space, but...

What I don't see is a toggle for making these elements visible with dragable handles - especially the spacing between voices in (for example) a choral score.

"It is impossible to make something "fool-proof" - fools are much too inventive"

Again, many thanks.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Marc, I appreciate your help.

The score is attached - three problem areas are obvious.

1) mm1, Sop, and following - somehow the hyphens between syllables have all shifted up.

2) mm 25 - 28 staff spacing. For some reason the space between SA is not the same as the others. I did not consciously change it.

3) mm25 - 28 that seems to have had implications re lyrics heights. (Some of the irregularity is because I started to try to re-align them.)

I don't know whether I've done something that has messed up the file completely - should I just be starting again?


Attachment Size
Huron vox fem oct4.mscz 15.73 KB

In reply to by Roger Priddle

Measure 25-27 lyrics appear on the second voice.
- Hold down Ctrl and select the syllables, then (still holding down Ctrl) press R.
- Double click Je, select the two letters;


Ctrl + X, Up arrow, Ctrl + V;
down arrow, Ctrl + x, Ctrl + V arrow up.
Repeat for the three measures.

hyphens: I can not understand how.
possible solution: go to the end of the syllable (eg. win), press Alt (to the right of the spacebar) + hyphen

Attachment Size
Huron vox fem oct4B.mscz 15.73 KB

In reply to by Roger Priddle

The hyphen height appears to be a result of having changed the text style for lyrics to use center verttical alignment. You need to leave that set at the default of baseline. Changing it back now will return things the way they should be (right click a lyric, Text Style, click the baseline vertical alignment icon).

In measures 25-27, the lyrics are not in the seocnd *voice* but in the second *verse*. So extra speace is allocated above them for the first verse. You must have inadvertently hit Enter while entering them which moved you down to the second verse. The procedure outlined above should correct this. Or just delete and r-enter those lyrics.

In the future, when manually aligning things, don't drag them individually. Select them all then use the Inspector to move them together. That way they will stay aligned.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Thanx for this - I have to learn about the Inspector.

Meanwhile, I've done something else. Meas 1&2, system 1 - Meas 3&4 System 2 bottom Page 1.

But Meas 5,6 System 1 Page 2

Meas 7,8 etc. appear to not fit so bump to Page 3.
I understand that the problem is the height of one or more systems, but I have no idea how it happened. Nor an easy way to fix it...

In reply to by Roger Priddle

Looking at your 2 posted scores (see 'Also' comment below):
You have changed the Scaling from 1.626mm (0.064") to 1.764mm (0.069") in menu item: Layout -> Page Settings. Increasing the scaling this way makes the score 'bigger' and causes systems to get bumped off a page.

So, if you want that new larger scaling size, you can reduce the top and/or bottom page margins slightly to fit 2 systems on a page.
You can restore to the original scaling, which will allow 2 systems per page as you previously had, without changing the page margins.

Also, when you attach an updated file, add a suffix or something else to the file name to distinguish it from the other scores attached to this thread. (Your original was named 'Huron vox fem oct4.mscz' and Shoichi's was 'Huron vox fem oct4B.mscz' - he added a 'B' suffix - so we could tell them apart. Comes in handy if your score continues to go through even more corrective actions here.)


In reply to by Jm6stringer

Point taken about naming files - I missed the "4B".

However, as far as I know, I never consciously changed the scaling. Is there any function within the software that can trigger an "auto-rescale" (for lack of better term)?

Interesting - I just noticed something else. On page 3 and 4, I would have expected the systems to line up since there are the same number of staves on each page. But the spacing of the staves is different if the is text vs. no text. I understand that there needs to be sufficient room for text, but where is this no shortage of space, I assumed that the staves would line up across the two pages.

To my eyes it looks slightly weird to have them line up across the top but be 'not aligned' by the time we reach the second system.

When I first noticed it, I wanted to drag the systems to line them up. couldn't figure out how - but I didn't try very hard... Is that a functionality that exists in MuseScore?


Attachment Size
Huron vox fem oct4 late.mscz 15.77 KB

In reply to by Roger Priddle

There is nothing that changes the scaling for you. But actually, your score is set to the default. So you'd just need to make it smaller if you want to fit more systenms on a page (or, as I said, play with the settings controlling staff distances).

One pages 3-4, you have the same nbumber of staves, but as I pointed out earlier, there are different numbers of lines of lyrics, so the systems have different sizes.

You can drag staves by holding shift, but not systems. It shouldn't normally be necessary or advisable, though. If the systems are the same size, they *will* align. And if they are not - as is the case here - it won't make sense for them for them to align. Instead, if you really want them to align, you'd need to force them to be the same size, such as by adding an empty lyric somewhere on page 3.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Take a look at this one - (oct5-D). Unless one of you guys did something to force the line up across the pages, this is exactly what I was looking for. The system (mm17 fwd) has 4 lines of notes + 3 lines of lyrics. Across the "page" (mm 24 fwd) has one l line of notes and one line of lyrics but the systems line up across the spread. This looks good. As opposed to the way it was before with the staves not lined up down the pages.

If the problem was something I did earlier, then I have no idea what I did, nor how is was corrected. If there;s a ghost in the machine, then maybe the simple act of posting it solves the issues !.

ah well - gonna sleep on this for a while.


Attachment Size
Huron vox fem oct5 D.mscz 15.81 KB

In reply to by Roger Priddle

No ghost...only Shoichi - one of the MuseScore angels ;-)

If you go to menu item: Style -> General -> Page, you will see 'Staff distance' set to 8.0sp. That's what Shoichi changed in his Huron vox fem oct5 C.mscz attachment. Setting that from 6.5 to 8.0 added more blank space between the empty staves. As you have already noticed, space had already been allocated for the entered lyrics.

In comparison, your Huron vox fem oct4 late.mscz attachment shows the Staff distance set to 6.5sp. The alignment across the page spread is not uniform. (You said you wanted to drag the systems to line them up.) So, increasing the Staff distance setting to 8.0sp made the staves appear to line up across the page spread.

If you are not yet finished entering notes/lyrics to your score, you really don't need to be concerned about empty staves that are misaligned with filled staves. MuseScore will re-position as you add notes/lyrics; therefore, stave spacing is always in flux - most especially when adding lyrics/verses.

Once you have entered everything - the notes/lyrics/etc. - score elements will be fixed in place. Then you can tweak the final layout according to what looks good to you.


In reply to by Jm6stringer

Thanks - yet again you remind me to stop being impatient! (Ok, not you specifically - this is your first chance - but everyone who ever taught me anything on computers.) "Finish the data entry, THEN make it look pretty!" was a mantra I used when I taught word processing to Seniors 30 years ago - seems I still haven't internalized the lesson. Maybe I need to set up the message in an auto-mailer - email it to myself after every 2 hours

As for reverting from 8sp to 6.5sp, my guess is that I a) did not notice the change, and b) reloaded an older revision of the file. Hence, accidentally stupid, not deliberately stupid.

However, yet again I am grateful and impressed by how responsive and supportive the community is. If I ever get this SATB version in, I have to modify it for an SSA ensemble my wife sings in. And, believe it or not, I actually enjoy tearing out my few remaining hairs working on projects like this! (But I'm a low bass - what can you expect )


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