Real Time Playing Note Entering

• Jul 28, 2015 - 20:42

Hi, Gang!!!

I wonder why not to add the typical "Real Time" entering notes method to MuseScore.

If MuseScore can recognize the external MIDI keyboard signals (to enter notes), I think it isn't so far to be able to "guess" what the player wants to write, according to some internal (or external) tempo clock (which exists, per se, into the MIDI world).

Why not? ???

Greetings & Blessings!!!!!!!



It is *extremely* difficult to do that kind of real-time processing - it's a totally different thing than getting input ine note at a time. It's not impossible of course, and it's a common request, but I think the people who request it generally don't understand the complexity of it, and for sure no one who understands the complexity of it has been sufficiently motivated to make the time to work on it.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

There was that suggestion (I forget from who) to process not in real time, but one measure at a time, or something like that—i.e., play something on the keyboard without it appearing in the score, until MuseScore's MIDI import facilities process what has come before. That was somewhat better received, wasn't it?

In reply to by Isaac Weiss

I don't rememebr that, but don't understand how it would work. One way or another, you have to prcoess the real time input to assign timings, and that is the part we simply don't have any concept of right now. I remember a suggestion for using the pedal as a "metronome", where you still enter notes one at a time but use multiple pedal presses to select duration. Also suggestions to interface with an external sequencer and accept MIDI files from it and insert their content into existing scores

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I'm not a programmer and I really don't have a clue about this. So, I can't imagine how hard it is.

I don't want to be "the most annoying man in the forum", but..., it's very rare to me how MuseScore started to exist (as a proyect) without this, from the beginning.

I mean, most of the paid "pro" software to write music have this function as the natural "basic" function (because it is intended to make the easy way to write the score, directly from the instrument).

I think MuseScore is the best music writing software into the Free Software World, but it's hard to understand why it doesn't have this "natural" function.

Whatever, I don't want to discourage the development team. No, no, no!!!

I really thanks all the team because it's a very wonderful work!!!

Just... It's a... dreamt thing.

Greetings & Blessings!!!


In reply to by Isaac Weiss

The second part of that is already solved as well as it is liekly going to be - it's what we do when importing a MIDI file. That's why I suggest interfacing with a sequencer to do that first part for you. You can do this already of course - record to a sequencer, save as MIDI file, import, then copy and paste into your score if necessary.

But really, as mentioned elsewhere, it's not a very practical way of inputting music for most people. I'm a professional pianist, and when I have tried to use real-time input with Finale or other programs, I'm almost always quite disappointed with the results. Except on the very simplest of lines - which could have entered manually just as fast if not faster (I can type whole notes faster than I can play them) - I usually spend as much time fixing things up than I would have would have spent entering the notes manually. And people who are *not* professional pianists have a rougher time of it.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

A classic windows 3.1, 16 bit program called Midi Session did it quite well. It would even quantitize your input, and account for latency. There is another "free" program that currently also does a good job, its called Anvil. Would be nice for Musescore to also input live MIDI from a keyboard.

The thing is that this type of real time entry doesn't work for most users. If you are not extremely cautious with the metronome, it will enter rubbish and you will spend a lot of time fixing the mistake.

The best proposal I read on the forum was about a different MIDI note entry. Something in between step note entry as we have now and real time. The method in short:
You select a duration, let's say 16th, then you press CEG on your MIDI keyboard. After X milliseconds, MuseScore makes a beep, if you release the key, MuseScore enters a 8th note chord CEG. If you don't release, MuseScore makes another beep after X milliseconds, and another one after X milliseconds, if you release now you get a Quarter Note CEG and so on.
This method has quite some potential I believe, even if it doesn't deal with tuplets or rests...

The basic problem is that written music = played music is not the same as a mathematical equation. Written music -> played music is relatively easy and gets the best results from a human but quite good results, too from a machine. Played music -> written music is not easy. Played music -> written music gets the best results when the computations are done by a human but even that requires a trained or experienced human. It's a bit like written recipe -> finished dish; best results from a human, reasonable results from a machine for some simple recipes (like bread). But, chucking a pizza into a machine and expecting the recipe to emerge is too much even though the recipe for it might be simple. At best you'll get a breakdown of carbohydrate, fat, protein etc. but bascially a mess.

If one is able to record in real-time in MuseScore, it can be compared to any of the "pro" music notation software programs. I do realize the complexity of implementing it, and of course it's not as easy as one thinks to simply play in your notes, and voila, there they are!!! There is lots of tweaking to be done, etc. Personally I find the step-time entry works best for me, but sometimes I really wish I could play in a simple melody in real-time!!!

Just saying....

MuseScore is a great notation application!!!

Think there are programs.. also free programs you can use to sample midi and then you can import this to musescore. But there then will be a lot of work to get this adjusted to useable scores. If you just want to mix some midi.. do not use musescore for that.

Anyone not understanding the complexity of the programming can test different software that does a lousy job. The software that doesn't suck, doesn't tell you that it's easy to program it. The software that does suck will tell you which tasks are difficult.
I used Sibelius 4 years ago with a midi keyboard. When I entered a melody line in a way I would play it normally on a keyboard, Sibelius added ties and lengthened each entered note too much. When I tried to play an unnatural portamento, I got it right. When I wanted 8th notes and 8th rests (every second), I got 4th notes as freakin staccatos. In Encore I had problems getting right accidentals, it gave me the enharmonic variants instead, maybe due to my complex tonality. Of course, these things may be adjustable in the settings, but a simple setting for one thing (like do I want F# or Gb in the whole score) is usually not enough. It requires logic, kind of intelligence that recognizes tonality or modality. And recognizes when one wants staccato and when one wants note-rest-note-rest sequences.
I think what we need is a separate program, an open source project that would entirely focus on the realtime note entry. It would output to music xml. And it would need people engaged to the project, just like there are people engaged to MuseScore.

Seems this discussion is already old, I don't know if this has been implemented or not. But what I am still doing is a record as midi then import to musescore and edit later. Still useful till this day. But I will always like to see this hyperscribe feature. One thing that keeps pulling me back to Finale is hyperscribe.

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