Fingering Palette does not produce styled text on some Windows 7 systems

• Aug 17, 2010 - 12:40
S4 - Minor

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Changing preferences for fingerings does not work.

Changing prefs (size, font, position) does not update for given fingerings, and when selecting note+doubleclicking fingering in the menu it appears with the default values.
When dragging a fingering onto a note at least the desired positon (as given in the prefs) is ok, but not the selected font/size.
(I guess there are some other text related issues, but I don't know now.)

All new releases of muse, on Mac PPC


I did some more investigation and found that some more things in the text style menu don't work, not only the fingerings.
Changing text style for title, composer, etc. does not work, not when "apply" is cklicked nor when the edit style window is closed with "ok". This is also true for dynamics, page numbers, instr. names, bar numbers, volta...
I think this has all the same reason and can be solved at once.

Changing the lyrics style works perfectly.

Status (old) active needs info

Which OS and MuseScore version?

I can't confirm on WIndows XP Pro SP3/MuseScore 2.0 Rfd9f5bb

Changing fingering font size works perfectly OK on a per score basis.

However, the default size goes back to 8 on beginning a new score.

Bearing in mind that some people will want to set global default styles for consistency, me being one of them, should we be considering enabling the saving of general and text styles on a permanent basis rather than per score?

Of course defining templates is the workaround for this, but if you suddenly decide to use a format you haven't got a template for, you then have to go in and reset all your fonts and sizes again.

This of course is beyond the scope of the original error report, so say if you think I should open a new issue on this, otherwise I will resurrect this one and change the title etc to suit.

I suspect Debbie was expecting changing the default to also affect fingerings already placed. It doesn't; it only changes the default for fingerings not yet added. 2.0 already provides a true "style" mechanism where changes to the style affect all elements createdwith that style.

As for global style, that is indeed a seprate topic. 2.0 already has the basic mechanism for this in place, via edit/default/score/style. Could possibly be exposed differently.

Status (old) needs info active

I use MuseScore primarily on my Windows 7 notebook SP1. I also have it on my Windows XP desktop SP3, but it was in my Win7 computer where i noticed the problem. I'm using MuseScore 1.2 Revision 5470. Thanks for mentioning the templates - I hadn't thought to try that.

I agree that making text style changes permanent - perhaps putting them in preferences - would be a great help.

I hadn't expected changing defaults to change past entries - I changed those by changing their properties. But I did expect it to affect future fingerings and also fingerings in new scores where I change the defaults before I enter anything. What is odd is that the Text Style panel shows my change - 10 pts for fingering - but new fingerings are still 8 pts and their properties confirm they are 8 pts until I change them in the properties.

Yes, I see this as well, both in 1.2 and 2.0. I change fingering font to 16pt, but the next fingering I add is still 8. It seems the FIngering text style is completely ignored in all versions.

So no, please don't close this, Michael. It seems to still be an active bug.

Since it doesn't seem to affect you, I wonder what the trigger is? What steps are you following? Here's what I did:

1) create new empty score, add four quarter notes
2) click first quarter note, double click the "1" icon in fingering palette - a small 1 is place on top of the notehead
3) style / text / fingering, change size to 16
4) click second quarter note, double click the "1" icon in fingering palette

Result: both 1's are still small
Expected result: First, after step 3, I expect the existing "1" to double in size. Then after step 4, I expect an equally large "1" to be placed on the notehead.

Of course, I also would have hoped the fingerings would not still be showing directly on top of the notehead - I thought that had been fixed long ago?

Double-clicking the fingering thus added, I see there is no style attached, which may explain things. If I explicitly change the style to "Fingering", then suddenly the style is honored.

So the problem seems to be that the palette is not inserting fingerings with the Fingering style, but as Unstyled.

This is on a self-built 2.0 from sources I got a week or two ago (github-musescore-musescore-5524:5526M).

I did a Revert to Factory Settings (mscore.exe -F), so my Fingering palette should be clean, unless that procedure has changed for 2.0. Perhaps you are using a custom Fingerings palette?

These fingering problems are fixed in 2.0, and as there are supposed to be no more bugfix releases of 1.x that means the issue is fixed in terms of the next release.

But please don't take my word for it Debbie.

Download the latest nightly build and play with it, making sure it behaves as expected.

If not, then report back here, otherwise it's fixed for the next rleased version.

@Marc at first sight there are still problems with altering font size - doing it the way we used to in 1.2 may not work if "Use text style" is ticked in the text properties box

To change the fingering size I went straight to the Edit Text Style dialogue and changed he font size there, after unchecking Size Follows Space Unit.

All fingering I had previously placed was resized, as was subsequent fingering input..

IME using the old Text Properties dialogue we had in 1.2 is not always guaranteed to work in 2.0. If the Use Text Style box is ticked, nothing you change in that will make a ha'porth of difference.

I was using Rfd9f5bb as I noted before.

Haven't got onto self building yet - my desktop PC is not yet back online after the move, and although I have all the bits downloaded, there just isn't space for installing them on my laptop, netbook or tablet because of other stuff on there I need for work.

Hope this sheds some light for you.

As I said above, though, using 2.0, the fingerings I place using the fingerings palette do *not* have the Fingering text style. So I can change text style till I'm blue in the face, but no fingering - past, present, or future - are affected.

Are you saying that if you click a note, double click a symbol on the Fingering palette, then double click the fingering, it shows in the bottom as having Fingering style? Mine does not. Nothing shows in the style box. That's why I wonder if you perhaps at some point customized your Fingering palette to actually use the Fingering text style. Because by default, it does not, for me.

Meaning, the Fingering text style may work as advertised, but it's relevant, because the Fingering palette appears to be broken - it does not use the text style.

AFAIK the only customisations I have made to the fingering palette are to add organ pedalling footings. The rest are plain vanilla as supplied with the nightlies.

I will check again, but on my test score I created a new piano score added a few notes then added fingering from the palette.

Going to check it out - will report back in a few.

OK back

If you load the attached file, this represents the score as created with no changes to fingering styles.

This creates the following fingering:


I stress this is exactly how it was entered from the fingering palette with no configuration changes.

The following screencast documents the fact that the fingering has the fingering style applied by default, and then goes on to show the easiest way to change it globally through the score.

This is all done using....

WindowsXP Pro SP3
MuseScore 2.0 Rfd9f5bb

Attachment Size
FingeringDemo.mscz 2.1 KB

I installed MuseScoreNightly-2012-08-18-7c7d7a3.7z and here's the result of my tests:

If I change the fingering style (size), it changes all existing fingerings, but new fingerings retain the default size, not my changed size.

So now I have a mix of my changed size - 14 - and the default size - 8.

If I again open the fingering style panel and click Apply or OK or both, nothing happens. However, if I change the size - make it 15, for example - and click Apply, then all fingerings change to 15.

I see that the Properties panel no longer displays size so there is no way to confirm the size of a particular fingering applied to a note.

So if a change in style should affect the entries going forward, it doesn't seem to.

Well, there is clearly a difference in how our palettes function, then, because for me, when I added fingerings in my 2.0 build, they showed up as unstyled.

I originally did a Revert to Factory Settings as described in the Handbook for 1.2 - running "mscore.exe -F" - but apparently that wasn't good enough. Because I just looked up the procedure for resetting the palettes - right click the palette title, "reset to factory defaults" - and *now* it works as expected. Previously, fingerings placed from the palette were unstyled, but now that I did the reset, fingerings now correctly apply the Fingering style, so all works as it should.

So assuming there isn't some sort of bug here that explains why I needed to do a reset (I don't think I had ever modified that *particular* palette before), then we can indeed close this as fixed for 2.0. But I'd like to hear some sort of theory on why that palette reset was necessary.

Here's mine: once upon a time I added a time signature, or tested the custom palette on the "text" palette (both true), and that resulted in *all* palettes being saved in a custom form, and that happened before the fix that allowed fingering to show up styled, so I still had the old unstyled version of the palette.

Plausible? If so, I'm satisfied.

Debbie - try the palette reset as I did (right click the word "Fingering", choose "Reset to factory defaults" - and see if that doesn't work.

As for checking the style of existing objects, double click them and check the toolbar at the bottom, or right click and select text properties. If the style box it's blank, it's unstyled. If you see the word "Fingering", you're good. If "FIngering" shows up as the size in the Text Properties, you shouldn't need to see the size - it will be whatever the style setting is. I think that's to make you more aware of the difference between styled and unstyled text. If you want to change the size of an individual item, uncheck the "Styled" box, and the rest of the dialog will activate - this will now be "unstyled" text. If you want to affect all text with that style, then edit the style itself.

At least, that's how it *should* work. I suspect you simply have the same issue as me where your palette is not functioning correctly and is placing fingerings as Unstyled.

Resetting to factory defaults did not change the behavior I reported previously. Edit Element doesn't allow me to change the size of a particular fingering on one note - I can change the number in toolbar and press Enter, but that doesn't change the size of the text for that note, even when Unstyled.

I can set up an Adobe Connect session with you so that you can see how the latest build performs on my computer in real time, if that would help.

I don't have that software; maybe someone else does?

Meanwhile, what about just a screen capture video via

As for edit mode, note this works rather liek a word processor. You'd have to actually select the text within the element if you want the font change to affect it. Simply double clicking the element (or right clicking and selecting Edit Element) and then changing the font only affects characters you then type into that same element. Just as, with nothing selected in a word processor, simply changing the font only affects characters you type next.

In other words, the expected behavior is:

1) Double clicking a Fingering palette icon, or dragging it to the score - places a text item with Style of "Fingering"

2) Style / Text / Fingering - affects all existing and future text that has a Style of "FIngering" (if #1 is working, that should include everything placed via the FIngering palette)

3) Edit mode on a given text element with nothing selected *within* that element - affects all characters you subsequently type into *that element* and *that element* only

4) Edit mode on a given text element with some text selected *within* that element - affects the text selected only

It still isn't clear which of these specific things isn't working for you. In my case, it was #1 only, and that fixed itself as soon as I reset the palette.

Adobe Connect is a web program I subscribe to (because I do tech support). I can set up a meeting room on the Adobe server, invite participants, and then either I or any participant can share their computer screen and even allow someone else to control the screen. It has a chat bar for conversations.

I will try your suggestions now and let you know what happens.

Here's my attempt at #3 (see screenshot). I may have misunderstood this. I changed the size on the selected fingering from 8 to 14, then entered the last two fingerings (1 and 2).

I don't know how to get into Edit mode except by selecting one of the fingerings.

Attachment Size
SNAG-0007.jpg 134.26 KB

You can also double click something to go to edit mode.

It looks like while you have selected the fingering element itself to edit it, you haven't selected any text *within* that element. Fingerings are just plain ordinary text. Just because they happen to have only one character in them doesn't make them different from other text - selecting the element isn't the same as selecting text within the element. So double click the element, then *select the character within that element*. Any of the usual ways of selecting text work - Ctrl-A is easiest. Since you haven't selected any text at all (which I can tell because no text is highlighted - only the outline of the element - your changes won't affect the text already in that particular element.

I made an analogy to word processors, but really, desktop publishing programs are more analogous, if that helps.

Anyhow, your screen shot shows you trying to change the text of one single element, and the fact that you never selected any text explains why that didn't work. But at this point, I'm now guessing you have been trying this sort of method to change the Fingering style. That's not how you do it at all. You need to find "Style" on the top menu bar, click that, then Text, then Fingering. That's where you'll find the style settings to control all Fingering elements at once.

We are back to the original problem. When I change the fingering text size in Style, it affects fingerings I've already entered but not future ones.

As for Edit mode, having selected text and changed its size, how do I retain that change - that is, leave the element and Edit mode - without saving the entire file? In Ver 1.2, I did this by clicking OK in the Properties panel.

But my real question is: why doesn't a change to the fingering style affect future fingerings in version 1.2 and in the latest build?

Again, I can show you the problem in real time on Win7 using the online version of Adobe Connect.

How to save a font change made in Edit mode? Just click somewhere outside the box. That is:

1) Double click a fingering to enter Edit mode
2) Ctrl-A to select the entire contents of the text that makes up that fingering
3) Use the spin box for font size to increase font size - it should update in real time
4) Click anywhere else on the score to leave Edit mode (or hit Esc)

I'm game to try the Adobe Connect session, but note there is little I will be able to do except confirm whether it looks like a bug or something you are doing wrong. I'm around for a little while right now if you get this notice soon (I assume the time stamp on this will show you in your time zone when I posted it). Send me personal email ( if you'd like to try now.

Update - problem definitely exists on her system. For some reason, fingerings are not always showing correct style settings. Will investigate more tomorrow.

Very strange - it's behaving properly on my Windows XP system

Trying with a fresh install of Rfd9f5bb on my Windows 7 machine resulted in the same problem Marc had with fingering being entered without a style.

There may then be a problem with Windows 7 with this.

I fail to see how Microsoft can produce an OS upgrade from XP and break stuff that was working properly in XP! I just wish all the apps I use were compatible with Linux so I could ditch their bumbling attempts at OS development for good!

For what it's worth, I set bin/nightly.exe to open in compatibility mode for WinXP SP3 and still encountered the same problem with fingering ignoring a change in size in the Style palette, but when I saved the file, closed it, and reopened it, the sizes were correct. New entries still reverted to the default size until the next save, close, reopen.

Edit element works if I set the element to unstyled first. If it's styled, nothing gets it to pick up the style but closing and reopening the file.

Title Fingerings and other text styles do not update Fingering Palette does not produce styled text on some Windows 7 systems

Change of title to reflect recent reports.

Status (old) active fixed

The issue appears to be fixed in R7c7d7a3

I just installed this nightly on my Winodws 7 Tablet and after testing fingering appears to be working normally.

So I wonder if a gremlin crept in to Rfd9f5bb?

This means that the issue appears to be fixed in the next release - 2.0

Am marking as fixed, but please reopen if you're still having problems Debbie.

Status (old) fixed active

R7c7d7a3 is the revision I've been using (see #13) and where Marc reported a problem (see #25). I gave him control of my screen using Adobe Connect web software (this is a freebie that allows up to 3 people to confer, share screens, and transfer control of the mouse and keyboard to another user). I'm using Win7 on the Acer Aspire notebook 4830TG-6808, which, in addition to the CPU, has a separate graphics processing unit, though that shouldn't be making a difference.

Curiouser and curiouser (said Alice)

I specifically tested to see whether fingerings kept their font size on my Windows 7 Tablet (Acer Iconia W500P) after the style had been edited, and in the piece I created that worked fine.

Would it be possible for you to use ScreenR to document the problem and post the link here?

We tend to use ScreenR quite a bit in here for documenting problems - it's easier than uploading a screencast to YouTube.

Can anyone else reproduce???

I have created a test score saved on my Windows 7 machine based on Debbie's video.

Please take the following steps:

1. Load attached Score
2. Open the Edit Text Style dialogue.
3. Change the font size for Fingering then press OK
4. Insert fingering on some of the notes without it.
5. Report back here if fingering font size is different from style setting.

Just to add to the confusion (well, I hope not!):

In ver 2.0, the palette customization is held in a config file. Under Win 7, it should be:


This is assuming you have not played with the profiles (I didn't): if you did, it might be a different file. It is a ZIPped file containing xml files and pictures (if you added them to the palette). Delete (or better rename) it to have a default palette.

After having renamed my default profile, I observe the following:

1) Select a note and double-click an item in the fingering palette: a fingering is generated which do not follow the fingering test style customization but uses the default
2) Right-click the fingering so generated and then "Text Properties"
3) The "Style" check box is checked but the "Style" drop list shows an empty name
4) By dropping the "Style" list and selecting "Fingering", the correct style is applied.

I am running a self-compiled exe pulled yesterday from github.



Both Marc and I have run into this one Miwarre!

Marc was able to clear it by right clicking the pallette titlebar and choosing "Reset to defaults"

That didn't work for me, however, but the problem disappeared in R7c7d7a3.

All this is making me wonder whether it is something to do with the paranoid way Windows 7 handles files and filepaths - I am rapidly getting tired of having to deal with "Do you want to run this file?" dialogues followed immediately by "Do you wish to allow this application to alter files on your computer?"!

Status (old) needs info active

Ditto big time to the complaint about paranoid Win 7, another bit of annoyware from MS, so I googled the latter msg and found other user complaints and what seems to be an answer from MS on how to go into the User Account Control (UAC) and turn it off or at least register trusted programs. I haven't yet read the details.

"Both Marc and I have run into this one Miwarre!":

IIUC, you got fingering being created as unstyled text; what I observe are fingerings created as styled but with an empty style name; operatively, this ends to pretty much the same thing, but the difference might be structural enough for the core developers to diagnose the issue.

Note: on the same rev. but under Linux (Ubuntu 11.10), I get fingering items properly styled: i.e., with "Styled" check box checked and "Style" drop list set to "Fingering"; I suspect it might be some mismatch in the style definitions across platforms.

"Marc was able to clear it by right clicking the pallette titlebar and choosing "Reset to defaults"":

Yes, I read that (I read the whole trhread and run a few simple tests before posting). That's why I made sure to have all the palette customizations removed by removing the relevant config. file.

"That didn't work for me, however, but the problem disappeared in R7c7d7a3":

I am running rev. 0cd8973, which is 4 days later than 7c7d7a3.


P.S.: the first thing I do on a fresh Win7 installation is to turn UAC off!!! ;-)

Actually, I was imprecise. My text was not "unstyled" in the sense of "unstyled" showing up in the style box. Iwas styled but with an empty name.

I rather doubt UAC is relevant here; none of this stuff should be being stored in protected folders. Annoying as UAC can be, I'd be afraid to turn it off. Too many malicious programs around for me to want to make it that easy for system stuff to be messed with, plus I'm not always as as careful as I could be. But I'm also quite used to it; it's been in Vista for the better part of a decade now.