Showing naturalization of key signature when using C major

• Mar 18, 2024 - 02:29

Does there exist in MS4 a supported way to show naturals of the next system if moving from an accidental key signature to a non-accidental signature (E.g. C-major)? Not asking about workarounds like applying an image or something of the sort. For example, the results would be (with or without a courtesy signature previously):



On the main menu, go to Format / Style / Accidentals. The second section is titled "[natural sign] in key signatures" and has three options:

O Only for change to C Maj / A min
O Before key signature if changing to fewer # or b
O After key signature if changing to fewer # or b. Before if changing between # and b.

The default is the first option. Experiment to determine how YOU want them to appear.

In reply to by worldwideweary

Make sure that you have actually applied the new key signature at that point. Your video does not show this.

I just set a score to B major, wrote a few measures, and then applied a key signature of C major in the next measure and it added the naturals. If I applied a key signature of D major, it put only the two sharps if I had the first option selected, but if I had either second or third option selected, it showed two sharps and three naturals.

In reply to by TheHutch

Ok. How about if you attempt to do what the initial questioned asked? That is, change your B-major to C major not merely into the "next measure" but at the start of a "new system", so as to get the naturals on the first measure of the next system to appear?

P.S. I attempted to "apply" after each iteration to no avail.

In reply to by worldwideweary

I have tried it on the first measure of a new system, on a measure in the middle of a new system, and on a measure in the middle of the notes already entered. It works anywhere I make the change and shows or doesn't show the naturals depending on how I have that setting.

For the fun of it, try applying a different key (e.g., G major, one sharp) to the measure where you want the change to occur.

In reply to by worldwideweary

Actually, I think I figured it out. It seems to not work on previously applied key signatures. I erased the measures with the C major change, added new ones, then re-applied the C Major key signature while the previous signature was showing on the following system, and MS did indeed apply the naturals to the beginning of the system. Thanks for testing.

In reply to by TheHutch

Interesting! when I disable Format / Style / Page / Create courtesy key signature, I get exactly what your screenshot shows. Enable the Create courtesy key signature and it should show the naturals. It will show them at the end of the previous system, which is the standard way of displaying them.

Looks like there's a new question though: can this also be done with a courtesy showing, or is that out of the question? I'm quasi-certain it can't be done after trying with the options already mentioned (regardless of whether it's "good" taste or not):


Good to know the naturals (without courtesy on) do appear though. Again, I had to delete and then re-apply to get it to work on my system.

Hell, in the process I think I found a bug. If the naturals are showing and I switch to enable courtesy: it works, but then if I switch back, the naturals are missing on the new system. Demonstration:


Maybe it is similar to my having to update the score with a new application of the key-sig again. Whatever it is, there's something not quite right with the code doing this stuff.

In reply to by worldwideweary

Fascinating! I think you're right.

Okay that was weird. I somehow managed to make the natural signs disappear in the middle of a system. I simply deleted the System Break, so the change moved onto that previous system. They re-appeared when I played the stretch. :-O

Something's odd there, unquestionably.

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