Turn & Inverted turn between 2 notes

• Jul 28, 2017 - 22:04
Reported version
Graphical (UI)
S5 - Suggestion

The gruppetto is placed by default above a note but it does not seem to have a way of placing it between 2 notes otherwise than moving it horizontally.
Would it be possible to get this by selecting the 2 notes and double-clicking on the palette icon or by dragging it between the 2 notes ?
My request is based on the fact that the effect obtained is different if the ornament is above a note or between 2.
Gruppetto 1.png

However, the way in which the effect of the ornament is made is rather vague (classical, baroque, modern, varying with the context - rhythm, tempo, etc ...) my query concerns only the positioning of the ornament between 2 notes, his performance being only a bonus. 

Attachment Size
Gruppetto 1.mscz 20.26 KB
Gruppetto 1.png 59.55 KB


There is no way to automatically place an ornament between two notes. Articulations and ornaments are set for a single note.

If someone were to implement it, it would need to be what ever a glissando is to keep it centered between notes, or possibly even a new category of ornament since you would want them at a fixed position above the staff.

Agreed. In principle this should be doable. I'd have known how to do it for 2.x, but much fo the 3.0 layout code is still a mystery to me, and still a work in progress anyhow.

Regression No
Workaround Yes

As a workaround, I manually place the grupetto / turn between those two notes, mark the notes as "don't play" (Inspector Panel -- F8 on Windows), add a second voice and add the notes the way it should be performed. Then I make this second voice invisible (piece by piece) and adjust the stems directions. It's a lot of steps and it breaks the placement if the page formatting is changed, but it is doable. I hope someday MuseScore has this grupetto / turn between two notes placed and performed automatically.

This should be implemented as delayed-turn and delayed-inverted-turn, the same tags in Musicxml. To add accidentals with correct positions with correct playback is also important. The accidentals should have property of placement above or below (I talk using Musicxml's concept). This will ease both notation and braille transcription. Now we have to manually adjust these symbols and accidentals in braille, and it's quite non-automatic.

Maybe we need an Inspector option for articulations or ornaments to specify whether they occur on "note start" or "note end". Are there any other elements that this option should apply to?

In reply to by shoogle

AFAIK, only turns have such thing, and the ones between notes are called delayed-turn and delayed-inverted-turn in Musicxml. For other objects, no on and between note property, but accidentals attached to a turn sometimes needs a placement property, in case it's for the lower auxiliary note. In Musicxml, the placement="below" is used for such kind of accidental, and it will be another topic.