Remove "Pause" property from Inspector for breath mark or make it 'stealing' time from preceeding duration
S4 - Minor
Post-#100856: Show pause property for breath and casesura, the pause property is now also shown for breath marks, which it definitely should not be (imagine a musician losing the downbeat after a breath).
See also Marc Sabatella's comment at https://musescore.org/en/node/100856#comment-449226.
Well, I don't necessarily mind them having the property, as long as it defaults to zero. Or is implemented like an articulation, slightly shortening the preceding note.
I'd like the latter a lot. But having the pause property available the same as for caesuras (default to zero or not), it looks too much like it does shorten the preceding note when it does something quite the else.
How about a negative value, made to mean to 'steal' from preceeding note?
I also vote for keeping the possibility of using the 'breathe mark' as a caesura, since I've seen it being used that way, and depending on the situation, e.g. for a singer, stealing from the previous note might not give sufficient time to breathe.
Providing the 'steal from preceding note' would of course be nice, and I actually like Jojo's idea with negative numbers. But I'm not sure if this might seem unintuitive to some users. Maybe it would be clearer to have a separate property for it.
I thought of the negative value too after posting, and I do think it's a good idea. I wouldn't worry too much about intuitiveness here since the majority of the time the defaults should be good, and seeing a negative value in that field by default will show the user that this is how to do it.
It's probably not too hard to implement but tricky because it is entirely different than the current implementation. Right now the effect is on the tempo map but the new proposed effect for negative values will be on note event lengths. Totally separate areas is code involved. Not sure that's a good enough reason you use a separate property instead of positive/negative but something to think about.
came up in https://musescore.org/en/node/116436 again.
somewhat related: https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/pull/2695
Came up again in https://musescore.org/en/2.1#comment-713531
came up again in https://musescore.org/en/node/290353
The check marks (like ✓ ) are stealing time, whereas the breath marks (like ❜ ) are supposed to insert extra time.
Probably there needs to be an option for either. In the instrumental ensemble world. breath marks would never ever add time. Everyone breathes at different times. The rest of the ensemble won't wait for just the oboe players :-)
Then you use the “check” breath mark instead of the “apostrophe” one (or the cæsura).
I checked this in Gould’s book (and had to change quite some apostrophes to checks in my scores to match).
In reply to Then you use the “check”… by mirabilos
The check mark might be common for instrumental music in the UK; that I can't say. In the US, though, it's normally the apostrophe. And it never means to add time in that context. So, again, best would be for both options to be available: the "steal time" interpretation, and the "add time".
I think what happened is that people didn’t know the difference and used them interchangably. (Like forgetting the 8vb sign on the clef for vocal tenor.)
Gould is pretty clear for both vocal…
… and instrumental music:
I think that modern editions should honour the standard. I’m not averse to a checkbox in the inspector for all kinds of breath marks to denote whether time should be subtracted or injected, but the default clearly ought to follow Gould.
(“never” means to add time is just stupid to not have; I have scores where both appear, for good reasons.)
Consider educating the people.
What should I do to make this happen without adding/stealing tempo to the song? What I need is that the tempo in the music stays locked all the way through. In other words, I want to shorten the values of the notes for breath, but without having to write them with pauses, in order to hear this effect.
In reply to What should I do to make… by Toninho Zemuner
Currently, I’m doing the following:
HTH & HAND!
In reply to Currently, I’m doing the… by mirabilos
Mirabilos, I really appreciate your help, and your solution certainly would work nicely in MS3, but unfortunately, as of today, MS4 has no Piano Roll Editor yet.
In reply to Mirabilos, I really… by Toninho Zemuner
Ah, well, maybe don’t use such banana software yet before the first somewhat usable release. This was true for all .0 and especially .0.0 releases so far…
… or just edit the
.mscxfile directly and add appropriate
In reply to Ah, well, maybe don’t use… by mirabilos
I've never heard the term "banana software" before your post. I had to google to find the meaning for this term. Now I know. Thanks.
You know it's meaning though? In case you don't; Bananas are normally harvested before they are ripe and shipped green. They are supposed to "post-ripe" on their way to or at the customer