Slurs tied to rests

• Jun 14, 2021 - 17:50

Wondering if there is a more elegant way of handling this (see attachment). I cannot seem to slur from a rest to a note following. I added an invisible grace, which worked but also added extra space to the measure.


Attachment Size
Screen Shot 2021-06-14 at 9.13.50 AM.png 47.87 KB


In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

As for the example… I don’t know if it’s a thing, and I’d be wondering about playing it.

But I encountered this scenario (including for ties) when there are repeats. Ties and slurs across repeats are notably tricky and currently impossible to get right.

In reply to by SteveBlower

I do appreciate it when people are helpful. Though I must say that I now fully anticipate that when I ask how to do something, someone will always, always respond with "now why on earth would you want to do THAT?". I'm nearing 60 and I've studied music since grade school. I've seen so many ways to write and engrave music, much of it non-standard. I think it's safe to assume that the people here who need to know how to achieve something know what they are doing and why it needs to be done in a certain way. I'm not singling out anyone in particular as it seems to be just a general type of response that people feel compelled to contribute.

In reply to by Soolip

Although "Why do you want to do that?" has not been asked here, I think it is generally a good question, especially when a user asks how to do something that is apparently outside the bounds of standard notation. Perhaps the user knows of notation cases that are not yet implemented in MuseScore and which could and should be implemented. Perhaps, as in this case, a user is asking how to do something using a workaround (tie from a rest) rather than the actual thing (slur from a note in one voice to a note in another voice) they wanted to achieve. Perhaps the user does not know that the thing they are asking for is not part of standard notation and can be advised what the more usual way of notating their objective would be. Perhaps the user misunderstands terminology and is asking about one thing (e.g. ties) when they mean something different (slurs). "Why do you want to do that?" is surely part of the process of providing useful assistance by exploring the user's request and making sure it is fully understood. If you are a frequent reader of the forum you will know how often a user's question is not understood, whether as a result of mis-formulation by the user, mis-reading or misunderstanding by the responder, and less than useful advice is provided as a result.

In reply to by SteveBlower

Even bystanders learn when this question is asked.

I learnt that notes can be notated to be doubled (on different strings then, I guess? though how do you do that when one is held for longer? not a strings player…) and we all learnt that the rest slur would be better notated as slur across voices (which I had automatically used in scores already without thinking about it).

In reply to by mirabilos

Publishers get to do whatever they want. So do composers. That doesn't make it correct. It just makes it what they did. It doesn't mean it has to be reproduced. Most of these slurs/ties seem to indicate that the notes should be held full value. It seems to me that the composition would convey that without extra markings. Besides, interpretation is completely up to the performer. No two performers will play this the same way. Perhaps Ravel marked things this way.
I know the question is about how to reproduce this. Which is legitimate, and has been answered. But the why is also important. I'm kind of happily surprised that no one has brought up Gould.

In reply to by bobjp

Oh, I’ll happily bring up Gould.

> A tie […] extends between two noteheads of identical pitch.

Slurs are defined in terms of ties and also between notes though not limited to noteheads.

There’s open ties: laissez vibrer which is better engraved by writing l.v. to avoid the use of fully open ties, and ties to a subsequent rest or barline to hold for the full length; in general, open ties are to hold one note for more than its notated length. Pedal markings use 𝆮 and 𝆯 exclusively and never use open ties.

Slurs that are not between notes (heads or stems) do not exist.

In reply to by underquark

Nine eighth notes in the first and third staff, but ten in the second. (Unless I'm counting incorrectly?)

But the notation is easy to do in MuS:

20240418-tie to rest 1.png

It could use some slight adjustments to the specific positions of the ties, but they are "ties" (in the MuS definition). This second screenshot should make it obvious how I did this:

20240418-tie to rest 2.png

The invisible notes in Voice 2 are set to not play, of course.

In reply to by Soolip

Best not to use the word "tie" here, instead say "attached" Otherwise it causes confusion since there no ties here, only slurs, and they get confused enough as it is!

Anyhow, no reason you can't slur notes from different voices. Just Ctrl+click the first and last, then press "S" or click the palette icon. The default layout is below in this case, which I think is probably better anyhow, but you could always adjust it if you are trying to copy a specific source exactly.

In reply to by Soolip

In the spirit of trying to be helpful to other people trying to follow this thread, I have a few questions about your original image.
1. Is this an actual example you have come across?
2. You said " indicating the passage is to be played in one bow stroke." What do you mean by "passage"?
3. Is the second measure in this example more what you are after?
If so, start the way Marc suggested. After adding the slur, select it and hit "x". You can drag one end of the slur around to where you want it.

However, I am nearing 70 and have studied music since grade-school also. Regardless of how this is notated, We must try to be accurate in the asking and the answering. Someone asked how this could be played. I have the same question. I ask what you mean by passage because it seems like you are referring to the first two slurred notes as a passage. This does not fit any definition I know of. Doesn't a passage mean at minimum of a phrase? You were asked how to play this because,as you have written it, it is not playable. Why? Because the slur over the last two notes indicates a bow change. Which can't happen if the first note is to be held 3 beats.
Someone asked about this and was meant with a complaint.
As it is, I think we still do not understand what it is you are asking.

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